Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, if I believe that this bill nearly eliminates bail reform and is strongly opposed by people across the political spectrum.…
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairFor what reason does the member rise? State your motion.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairWho requested a roll call? Rep. Berry requests a roll call. Is that sufficiently seconded? It is sufficiently seconded. This will be a roll call vote. Members please take your seats. The House will come to order. The question is whether to lay HB 1476 on the table. Rep. Bouldin is recognized for a parliamentary inquiry.
Rep. Andrew Bouldin (D - Hills 12)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, if I believe that this bill nearly eliminates bail reform and is strongly opposed by people across the political spectrum. And, if I know that there's a bill coming over from the other body, which is preferable to this bill. And, if I know that we have another 177 bills to get through in the next couple of days, would I now press the green button to lay this bill upon the table?
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairRep. Berry is recognized for a parliamentary inquiry.
Rep. Ross Berry (R - Hills 44)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, if I know that this bill is the culmination of a bipartisan effort over the last six months to address bail reform. And, Mister Speaker, if I know that this bill does in fact leave the core principles of existing bail reform in law. And, Mister Speaker, if I know that this bill, at a minimum, deserves a debate so that we may be heard, would I now press the red button to oppose the tabling motion? Speaker Steven Smith: The question is whether to lay HB 1476 on the table. If you are in favor, you'll be pressing the green button. If you are opposed, you'll be pressing the red button. Voting stations are open for 30 seconds. Have all members present had an opportunity to vote? The House will attend to the state of the vote. 161 having voted in the affirmative, 168 in the negative, the motion fails. The question now is on the majority committee report of Ought to Pass with Amendment. The Member from Sandown, Rep. True is recognized to speak against the committee report.
Rep. Chris True (R - Rock 9)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, HB 1476 says that any person who is out on bail and is arrested a third time for a class B misdemeanor shall be held in jail for no more than 36 hours, pending a hearing before a judge. Well, let's say held no more than 3 or 4 days because no more than 36 hours is not including any holidays or weekends. I ask you Mister Speaker, what type of person do you think would possibly be charged with a class B misdemeanor 3 or 4 times in a row before they are even taken before a judge? I suggest that they could possibly be a person with drug problems or they could be a homeless person or they could be a person with serious mental health issues. I suggest that the people this bill will affect are those among us who have the very least. Please know that anyone found guilty of a class B misdemeanor will only be subject to a fine. No jail time is associated at all with a class B misdemeanor. Mister Speaker, where is the justice in throwing the person in jail for 2 or 3 or 4 days when, if they were eventually found guilty, the judge simply says guilty with a $100 fine, no jail time? Does that make any sense to you? Throwing a person with mental health or addiction issues in jail is not therapy. HB 1476 creates an unfunded mandate by adding approximately $110 to $130 a day for incarceration costs, per day, per person and that cost is forced on the cities and counties as an unfunded mandate. HB 1476 violates the due process rights of the accused and does away with innocent until proven guilty. In closing, please allow me to quote from one of our countries greatest disco bands of all time, The Bobby Fuller Four, "I fought the law and the law won." Please vote against this motion of OTP/A so that the law and American jurisprudence will win. Please press the red button. Thank you, Mister Speaker.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairThe Member from Manchester, Rep. Bouldin is recognized to speak against the committee report.
Rep. Andrew Bouldin (D - Hills 12)Thank you, Mister Speaker. I've been quiet on this bill up until now and that's because I'm in an awkward position as Chairman of the Manchester delegation as the City of Manchester supports this bill. However, when I put on this name tag and enter this chamber, I don't represent the city or its departments. I represent the residents of my district and for that reason, I rise to speak against the committee report of HB 1476 because I know the people of Manchester support bail reform. This bill purports to fix what is characterized as a catch and release system. Supporters of this legislation claim that dangerous individuals are being released on bail where they then continue to victimize people. If that were true, how is that crime rates in nearly every category have decreased since bail reform was passed in 2018? In fact, the overall crime rate is down 14%. The reality is that under bail reform, offenders who are dangerous are already held in jail without bail, regardless of the crime they have committed. It's called preventive detention and it exists under current law and it is implemented on a regular basis. In spite of the overall success that bail reform has delivered, this legislation would have us move backward to an era of higher crime and mass incarceration. It brings back income-based discrimination. It brings back holding individuals in a jail cell merely because they can't afford to buy their freedom. It brings back a system where a wealthy criminal goes home and a poor man stays in jail. That's not justice. That's an injustice. If this bill becomes law, individuals who are arrested while out on bail, even for a simple misdemeanor such as trespassing, must be held in jail for up to 36 hours, not including weekends or holidays, until they can see a judge. So, if they are arrested on a Friday evening, they could sit in jail until Wednesday. This bill also binds the hands of the judge by removing personal recognizances as a bail option. This means the judge must order cash bail and what if the defendant can't afford it? Well, they sit in jail, probably for months just like people did before bail reform was passed in 2018. Therefore, in effect, HB 1476 guts bail reform. This bill is going to harm homeless people. It is going to harm people with mental illnesses. It is going to harm people suffering from addiction and it is going to affect minorities disproportionately. Data from the FBI shows that black people in New Hampshire are more than 3 1/4 times more likely to be arrested than white people. In fact, local leaders of Black Lives Matter published an Op-ed in the Union Leader this week opposing this bill and I quote, "As we work to achieve a national reckoning around systemic racism, it is unconscionable that legislators would expand the already disproportionate incarceration of black people in New Hampshire. We urge our lawmakers to oppose HB 1476." Supporters of this legislation also claim that people suffering from substance misuse disorder can get treatment in jail while they wait for their trial. Well that just isn't true. Individuals held pretrial are not eligible for treatment services. The list of organizations that are fervently opposed to this bill is long and includes Rights & Democracy, American Friends Service Committee, The New Hampshire Council of Churches, Granite State Organizing Project, The New Hampshire Youth Movement, The New Hampshire High School Democrats, Black Lives Matter Manchester, Black Lives Matter Seacoast, The New Hampshire ACLU as well as various conservative groups such as Americans for Prosperity, The New Hampshire Liberty Alliance and the House Republican Alliance. These organizations certainly don't agree very often, but they all agree that we need to kill this bill. Why does this bill draw the ire of such a bipartisan and diverse coalition of organizations and activists? It's because they all see it for what it is, a return to the barbaric practice of the cash bail system, a return to a system that
addresses mental illness, homelessness and poverty with shackles and cages. I urge all my colleagues to vote red and oppose this bill because it will have very real and very dire consequence for minorities, homeless individuals and those suffering from mental health issues. Thank you, Mister Speaker.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairThe Member from Manchester, Rep. Long is recognized to speak in support of the committee report.
Rep. Patrick LongThank you, Mister Speaker. I rise in support of the Ought to Pass as Amended question. I agree, people should not be detained in jail simply because they can't afford to pay the bail amount. In 2018, I supported the current statute, however, I have learned that the experience in Manchester is the unintended consequences of multiple arrests of the same people on bail. As an Alderman in Manchester, I receive arrest statements frequently and noticed early on that the same people were being arrested again for the same crime. I needed to explain to my constituents why the same person, for example, that damaged your car last week trying to take things out of it, was arrested again for damaging a neighbor's vehicle the following week. I, too, represent my constituents, which are both my state rep hat and my aldermanic hat. I've also witnessed discussion within specific groups that were mentioned by the prior speaker that have made their colleagues aware of the criminal activity, not to be concerned about going around breaking into cars. We are going to get arrested and I'm guaranteeing you within 2 to 3 hours we are going to get released. That's the conversation they are having. This is what we have been hearing in the City of Manchester, let alone the extra resources spent on our police force repeatedly picking up these people week after week after week. This has no benefit to the person arrested or to the neighborhoods involved, let alone resources spent. HB 1476 is a start in addressing the consequences realized today with bail reform and I will be supporting Ought to Pass as Amended. Thank you, Mister Speaker.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairThe Member from Nashua, Rep. Harriott-Gathright is recognized to speak against the committee report.
Rep. Linda Harriott-Gathright (D - Hills 36)Thank you, Mister Speaker. HB 1476, as amended, a mandate for the pretrial incarceration of any individual charged with any felony or class A misdemeanor offense if they were on release from any offense at the time, including a class B misdemeanor offence that carries no jail time if convicted. This legislation will not make our communities safer. Current law already allows the court to detain individuals pretrial if they are flight risks or a danger to the community. This one size fits all legislation will deprive potentially thousands of Granite Staters of their freedom without any evidence that any of the individuals pose a threat to our communities. This legislation is based in fear, not evidence. Despite the fearbased rhetoric and limited anecdotal stories from our law enforcement leaders, proponents of this legislation have provided no data to support their claims that the current bail system makes New Hampshire less safe. This legislation will disproportionately harm black people. New Hampshire's criminal laws are enforced with staggering racial bias. For example, in 2020, black people were 3.29 times more likely to be arrested compared with white people. For many low-level discretionary offences, this disparity was even more troubling, including 4.8 times for marijuana possession despite both groups using marijuana at roughly the same rate. 5.9 times for disorderly conduct. 6.52 times for vagrancy. Because black people are disproportionately arrested, they will also be disproportionately incarcerated under this legislation's mandatory incarceration regime. In the midst of a national reckoning around systemic racism and police violence, it is unconscionable that legislators would expand the already disproportionate incarceration of black people in New Hampshire. This legislation will expand the criminalization of poverty in New Hampshire. Personal recognizance bail was implemented to ensure that people that could not afford bail could be released assuming the court did not find them to be a danger or flight risk. Under this proposed legislation, people who are arrested while on pretrial release will be denied personal recognizance bail, thus setting up a new wealth-based incarceration system where those with wealth can purchase their freedom. So I implore my colleagues that you vote against the Ought to Pass motion for HB 1476. Thank you, Mister Speaker.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairWe are down to the final speaker. This isn't going to be a voice vote so maybe find our seats. The Member from Manchester, Rep. Berry is recognized to speak in support of the committee report.
Rep. Ross Berry (R - Hills 44)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Thank you to the body for allowing this debate to take place. I know it's been a long day and we've got more to go. I represent the southside of Manchester, wards 6 and 8. When I door knocked and campaigned, I knocked on over 4,500 doors and when you do that, you meet a lot of voters and you would expect to hear the traditional issues, guns, abortion, education. An overwhelming vast majority of my constituents cited bail reform because it is a Manchester problem. For those of you who pay attention to politics know that me and my mayor don't always get along, but we agree on this. The very first thing I did upon winning my election, before we were even sworn in, was meet with our police department to try to look at ways to fix PR bail or bail reform in general and everyone was pointing fingers because the reform that this body just passed was still taking effect. I was told to wait, so we waited. Mister Speaker, Manchester is done waiting. The other communities that are affected by this are done waiting. Last year, we just had our crime report out, and one of the other Members from Manchester referenced that report. Property crime in Manchester is up 10%. It's up 10% in Manchester in one year. I want to talk about the specifics of this bill because they often get overlooked. Does anyone want to guess what the current standard is for being held? It's 72 hours. So what did we do to try to bring in as many people as possible on this? We compromised and we shortened it to 36 hours. You heard that correct. If you vote for this bill, you are shortening the amount of time that someone can legally be held from the law as it is today. Mister Speaker, we are not trying to overturn the bail reform that this body passed. We are talking about people who are already out on bail. They are already out on bail and they have been arrested again. But again, the other side came to us and said can you compromise and we said yes, we will because we want you on board so we reduced it for 3 times for class B misdemeanors. You have to be arrested three times for a class B misdemeanor before this kicks in. DWI is a class B misdemeanor. Mister Speaker, Manchester is done waiting. Our communities are done waiting and I urge you, and they are still innocent? Thank you.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairRep. Conley is recognized for a parliamentary inquiry.
Rep. Casey Conley (D - Straf 13)Thank you, Mister Speaker. If I know that this bill retains the core tenets of New Hampshire's 2018 bail reform bill while addressing cases when the same person is arrested multiple times while already out on bail. If I know that this is not just a Manchester problem, but a statewide problem that affects even my City of Dover and other Seacoast communities. If I know this bill is supported by New Hampshire's Police Chiefs and our elected sheriffs and county attorneys of both parties who know this issue better than anyone, would I then press the green button to support this important bill? Thank you.
Rep. Steven Smith, in the chairThe question is on the majority committee report of Ought to Pass as Amended. This is a roll call vote. If you are in favor, you'll press the green button. If you are opposed, you'll press the red button. Voting stations are open for 30 seconds. Have all members present had an opportunity to vote? The House will attend to the state of the vote. 199 having voted in the affirmative, 134 in the negative, the committee report is adopted.