The House, Friday, June 4, 2021

Speaker PackardA division has been called. Roll call has been called. Is that sufficiently seconded? It is sufficiently seconded. This will be a roll call vote. Members will take their seats. The Chair recognizes Rep. Porter for a parliamentary inquiry.

Rep. Marjorie Porter (D - Hills 30)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, if I know this amendment removes a very important section of SB 86. One that helps address our housing shortage in New Hampshire, then would I please vote no on this amendment? Thank you.

Speaker PackardThe Chair recognizes Rep. Dolan for a parliamentary inquiry.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Thank you, Mister Speaker. If I know that the original Part 2 is about housing and is nongermane to planning board inspections and selecting energy for homes. And if I know that maintaining Part 1 and Part 3 is very important to preserve citizen choice for energy selection. And if I know the old Part 2 weakens the bill and needed to be removed, would I now press the green button to pass the amendment that was passed unanimously by the committee majority?

Speaker PackardThe motion before us is a roll call vote. State your point of order.

Rep. Marjorie Porter (D - Hills 30)Mister Speaker, I don't believe the majority of the committee voted for this amendment. I believe that the committee vote was 10-9 on this amendment.

Speaker PackardRepresentative, I don't know. I don't have the committee report in front of me so I don't know what the vote is. I don't know. This was a parliamentary inquiry. The question before us is the majority amendment on SB 86, amendment (0946h). Everybody understand what they are voting on? This is a roll call vote. If you are in favor, you will press the green button. If you are opposed, you will press the red button. Voting stations will be open for 30 seconds. Have all members present had an opportunity to vote? The House will attend to the state of the vote. 204 voting Yea, 168 voting Nay, the majority committee report is adopted. Majority amendment is adopted. The minority amendment is (1404h) printed in House Record 26, pages 76-.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Mister Speaker, I couldn't get to the microphone fast enough, but I move that the remarks of the previous debate be listed in the Permanent Journal.

Speaker PackardDo you want to wait until the whole debate is over?

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)I got a little eager. I apologize. Yes, I would like to wait.

Speaker PackardThe minority amendment is being offered by Rep. Stavis who is recognized to speak.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, I rise to offer amendment (1404h) that would make one small change to SB 86 as it came to us from the Senate. We think this is a good bill overall. It will make it easier for developers to do business in New Hampshire and encourage the state to begin solving a crisis in housing unlike any we've ever seen. The change we seek only affects the third part of SB 86 by allowing municipalities.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Are we entertaining PI's at this point? It doesn't sound like a PI.

Speaker PackardNo, this is the debate. She is speaking to the amendment.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Thank you, Mister Speaker. The change we seek only affects the third part of SB 86 by allowing municipalities to move forward with environmentally sound energy policies while making it clear that any such efforts much grandfather existing structures, thus not requiring them to retrofit or otherwise meet more energy efficient criteria. We offer this amendment because we believe in granting cities and towns control over their own destinies. This legislature does have the authority to dictate what municipalities can and can't do. It's a lot of power, power that comes with the responsibility to make sure we invoke it only when there is a statewide interest. But simply because we can doesn't mean we should. The outright ban on energy systems in the original version of SB 86 is not a statewide interest. In fact it is government overreach in its purest form because what works for one town may be impossible for another. We shouldn't be in the business of forcing or prohibiting mandates that favor some towns and cities over others as section 3 of SB 86 in its original form clearly does. Instead our amendment shares power with municipalities by allowing them to adopt energy mandates while exempting their existing buildings. The amendment achieves the overall goal of SB 86 while not forcing unreasonable and untenable cost burdens on established homes and businesses. But why support this you may ask when this legislature has so far voted down more than 5 good bills this session that seek to address New Hampshire's housing crisis? I encourage you to support it because it is good for business. As many of you know I work in a grocery store. This is an industry with razor thin margins. Raising wages in many cases would erase those margins and drive a lot of stores out of business. In my store we are now down to an average of 2 cashiers each day. It's untenable.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Thank you, Mister Speaker. The original amendment to the bill removed the housing section in committee. The floor amendment being discussed now does not include any language about adding back in the housing section so any discussion of the housing portion of the bill I believe to be out of order.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Mister Speaker, I haven't gotten to that yet.

Speaker PackardI would just. I would just ask the Representative to try and stay within the confines of the, of your amendment.

Rep. Marjorie Porter (D - Hills 30)If you read the amendment in the House Journal it outlines the 3 sections of the bill that this amendment addresses so this amendment is different than the amendment we just voted on.

Speaker PackardOkay. Alright. I think we are at a point where I mean I have asked the Representative to confine her remarks to the amendment and I have confidence she will so let's move on.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Thank you, Mister Speaker for your confidence. I do believe I am addressing my remarks specifically to the amendment that has been proposed. Let me see if I can find where I left off. In our grocery store, we can't find people to unload trucks, stock shelves, bake birthday cakes, staff the meat counter or the produce section. All across our state businesses are hurting like this because employees who would otherwise love to work for us simply can't because they can't find homes they can afford and homes are where jobs go to sleep at night. There is a bright line connecting New Hampshire's housing crisis to its employment crisis and that line is cutting across every business in our state. All of our businesses, including essential ones like grocery stores, desperately need people in jobs and those people desperately need homes. SB 86 makes a good start at solving these interconnected problems in commonsense ways. It makes it easier for developers to build affordable housing. It creates a housing and conservation program to ensure that we retain the natural beauty of our state.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Mister Speaker, we are now drifting back into the housing portion of the bill that's already been eliminated and I believe this is out of order. Section 3, part 3 of the bill which is what this amendment addresses is energy choices and has nothing to do with housing and I would respectfully request that the member not begin a discussion about housing.

Speaker PackardI would just. I would just. Please let me finish. I would just again remind the member. I don't have the amendment in front of me. I don't know what it says so I would just ask that we confine it to the amendment.

Rep. Lucy Weber (D - Ches 1)Mister Speaker, as I understand it, although the prior amendment removed certain sections, this amendment is trying to return some of those sections and therefore she is speaking to the subject of the amendment and people can then vote it up or down, but it is a further amendment after the amendment that was already adopted and the matter, I believe, is in the amendment.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Mister Speaker, may I continue with my remarks?

Speaker PackardYou may continue, Representative. I again just ask that you confine it to the amendment itself.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)I am speaking to the amendment itself and I have been since I stood up to speak.

Speaker PackardWell I do have the amendment that is right here and it is about heating systems so I'm trying to give everybody as much latitude as possible so I would. I'm just asking Representative if we can confine it to that and if we can move on, we'll be over with this pretty quickly. The member may continue.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)SB 86 is a good bill. It should pass this House in its entirety with a small change to section 3 of the bill which prohibits cities and towns from issuing mandates about heating and energy systems. We believe that this is government overreach into the business of towns and cities. That it should not stand and we believe that by gutting the central piece of this bill which deals with housing and conservation in our state, we are defeating the purpose of the Senate bill altogether. I urge you to vote Ought to Pass as Amended on SB 86. Let us begin to solve the housing crisis that has plaguing our state. Thank you, Mister Speaker.

Speaker PackardThe House will be in order. The Chair recognizes Rep. Dolan.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Thank you, Mister Speaker. The amendment being put forth today on SB 86 contrary to what you may have been listening to, does not have a single word in it about housing. It talks about heating choices so for you to be considering voting depending on housing, I ask you to look into your calendar. I don't have the page for you, but amendment (1404h) is the amendment we are talking about and if you look at it and read it you will not find a single word about housing. Although the author was given the latitude to speak about housing, I don't believe that this amendment has anything to do with housing.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Yes, thank you. Mister Speaker, with all due respect to my colleague and the Chair of our committee, the amendment we offer restores the central portion of SB 86 that the majority of the committee took out with its amendment so our amendment in fact restores that central piece that does deal with housing, very specifically deals with housing. That is a vital part of this amended bill.

Speaker PackardRepresentative, I'm under the understanding that may have been your intent, but that is not what's in the calendar. So I allowed you an awful lot of latitude. I would ask that you give the gentleman, Representative Dolan, the same amount of latitude.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Thank you, Mister Speaker. The floor amendment actually in part 3 does try to provide a grandfathering clause that says if you have current energy choice like propane or home heating oil, you can keep it. You won't be forced to change it but if this amendment does pass, consumers for heating and energy sources could still be banned for certain energy choices for new structures and new construction. There is nothing that limits that. The grandfathering doesn't extend into new construction. This is an attempt to try to get everybody on electric, using electric as their source of energy and we have seen neighboring states, Massachusetts and Vermont, going through their planning boards and.

Rep. Laurel Stavis (D - Graf 13)Mister Speaker, I believe my honorable colleague is misstating the intent of the amendment.

Speaker PackardRepresentative, as I said before, I gave you quite a bit of latitude. The claim is that you misstated your amendment. Now your stating that his misstated, he is misstating the amendment. You both can't be right so would you. I'm asking if you would let the member continue and then we will have a vote? Representative Dolan: Thank you, Mister Speaker. I am looking at page 76 in the calendar on amendment (1404h) and it's an amendment to part 3 which is about energy choices. Nothing about housing. You can look at it for yourself to decide who you choose to believe in this debate. I also know that there is no way to guarantee going forward the choice of independent homeowners and developers about choosing what energy source they want to use and by the way, if gas, propane, natural gas, whatever. If that's eventually eliminated from our choices, think of the number of the hundreds and hundreds of workers that will be put out of work that work in those current industries. Again, this is not without precedent. Vermont and Massachusetts have already moved out by making changes in their local building and zoning laws that limit those choices and want to make sure that you pick electricity in your choice for your new construction. Now, we know that what we are really talking about here if we drill into this. This is electric heat pump technology is how this translates as you unpack it. We know that the technology for electric heat pumps in the winter time when it is below 30 degrees, it is very difficult to get your home about 60 degrees. Lots of complaints have been by the elderly that they are cold and cannot get their homes warmed up and they have to buy secondary heating sources or those little heating cubes you plug into wall outlets to try to get their houses and their condos up to a warm temperature. These are very expensive to run. They are a little bit dangerous and this is not the technology that we should be forcing people into through this backdoor changing of zoning rules and building codes. So I would advise you if you want to maintain the very important issue of consumer choice, that you vote down this amendment (1404h) and press the red button when we get to that point.

Speaker PackardThe motion before us is the minority amendment (1404h). What reason does the member rise?

Rep. Michael Harrington (R - Straf 3)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Thank you, Representative. In the previous speech we heard, there was the reason for grandfathering was stated as so it wouldn't impose on tenable cost on existing structures so would it be safe to assume that going forward, we would be imposing these same untenable costs on future structures?

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Yes, what we have seen happen and it's not in the amendment, but what we have seen happen in neighboring states is that at some point of time after some number of years of grandfathering, the local community can require you if you have an oil heater in your basement, for you to, to have to take it out and replace it with electric heat pump technology.

Rep. Kat McGhee (D - Hills 27)Mister Speaker. It's Representative McGhee.

Rep. Kat McGhee (D - Hills 27)Thank you. I rise for a point of clarification. I'm a homeowner who actually has ground source heat and electric heat system.

Rep. Kat McGhee (D - Hills 27)Well I would like to make a clarification as someone who actually has the system.

Speaker PackardThere is no such thing as a point of clarification. If you would like to ask a question of the previous member? Does the member yield to a question?

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Mister Speaker, I think we have gone long enough on this topic.

Speaker PackardThe member does not yield. The motion before us is the minority amendment (1404h). Are you ready for the question? I was waiting for that. Rep. Burt has requested a roll call. Is that sufficiently seconded? It is sufficiently seconded. This will be a roll call vote. Members will take their seats. This is a roll call vote on minority amendment (1404h). The Chair recognizes Rep. Porter for a parliamentary inquiry.

Rep. Marjorie Porter (D - Hills 30)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, if I believe in the Granite State's strong tradition of local control and that the legislature should tread carefully when it comes to imposing one size fits all mandates. And if I know section 3 of this bill does not have anything to do with electric heat, then would I please vote yes for this amendment? Thank you.

Speaker PackardThe Chair recognizes Rep. Dolan for a parliamentary inquiry.

Rep. Tom Dolan (R - Rock 5)Thank you, Mister Speaker. If I know this floor amendment states that any structure that predates a local ordinance to ban certain heating fuels can still use its current form of heating or energy source. And if I know the so called grandfathering for existing homeowners, that the consumer choice for heating or energy sources could still be banned for new structures and new construction. And if I know this floor amendment basically neuters the bill and no longer guarantees consumer choice of energy. And if I know the adjoining states of Massachusetts and Vermont have already started to limit homeowners energy choices through changes in building and zoning codes. And if I know the only way to guarantee consumer choice is to vote red on this floor amendment?

Speaker PackardThe motion before the House is on SB 86 is amendment (1404h). This is a roll call vote. If you are in favor, you'll press the green button. If you are opposed, you'll press the red button. Voting stations are open for 30 seconds. Have all members present had an opportunity to vote? The House will attend to the state of the vote. 168 voting Yea, 207 voting Nay, the minority amendment fails. We are back to the original bill. We are on to the committee report, the majority committee report of Ought to Pass as Amended on SB 86. Rep. Baldasaro has requested a roll call. Is that sufficiently seconded? It is sufficiently seconded. This will be a roll call vote. Members will take their seats. The motion before us on SB 86 is the majority report of Ought to Pass as Amended. We have no minority PI. We have no majority PI. So again the question is on the majority committee report of Ought to Pass as Amended on SB 86. This is a roll call vote. If you are in favor, you'll press the green button. If you are opposed, you'll press the red button. Voting stations will be open for 30 seconds. Have all members present had an opportunity to vote? The House will attend to the state of the vote. 208 voting Yea, 167 voting Nay, committee report is adopted.