Thank you, Mister Speaker and good morning. My purpose this morning is to ask you to vote green on HB 455 or to repeal the death penalty.…
Rep. David Danielson (R - Hills 7)Thank you, Mister Speaker and good morning. My purpose this morning is to ask you to vote green on HB 455 or to repeal the death penalty. Many of us when we have children come in here to visit, when they come in, many of them ask the question, what's the most difficult thing you have to do? I'm not sure how you answer, but my response usually is the head and heart bill. The bill that comes in with your heart and you know whether it's right or wrong, you know it, but on the other hand, can you afford it? You go through that and I try to explain it's like an allowance. I hope I get close, but that is one of those decisions. So today when I go through my explanation, I realize that many of you are going through that right now. How should I decide on this bill? Should I vote to repeal or not? And, it's a gut decision and I realize that. So, I'm not going to fault anyone if you make the decision that is not in support of mine. However, when I was elected 8 years ago, I was an ardent supporter of the death penalty until a very well-known conservative Republican, who you would recognize immediately asked me where I stood on the death penalty. I answered I support it. He then asked if I was pro-life and I was surprise that he asked because he knows me, and he knows my family and he knows that we would have multiple reasons to say yes, so I answered yes. His next question was the one that got me. How do you reconcile those two positions? That's what I meant earlier. It was a gut decision and quite frankly it took me aback. It took me over two weeks for me to think about it, pray about it, ask questions about it and I came to the conclusion that I could not reconcile those two positions. I could not say I was pro-life on one hand and not on another and so that's way today I am saying I would like us to repeal the death penalty. When I was appointed to the Finance Committee and I know there are arguments here and that's okay, but when I was appointed to the Finance Committee, I learned that we spend approximately, have spent $5.5 million in defense of our position with the inmate that we now have over in the state prison, who is awaiting the death penalty. I also learned that it cost about $42-$43,000 per year to pay for an incarcerated inmate. You can do the math. If we continue to do this at $5.5 million after ten years, it's going to be a long time before we reach the payoff, if you will. So, again, it just doesn't make sense from a finance, from my perspective. It does not make sense from a financial perspective. So, on one hand we have the gut decision that we have to make. On the other hand, I would suggest to you that if you think of the financial side, you would consider that as well, but ultimately what I would ask you to do is please vote to repeal the death penalty this morning and I thank you very much for your attention. Mister Speaker, I will not take any questions.
Speaker ShurtleffThank you. The Chair recognizes the member from Concord, Rep. Wazir to speak for the recommendation.
Rep. Safiya Wazir (D - Merr 17)Thank you, Mister Speaker. I'm speaking in favor of HB 455 that will repeal the death penalty in New Hampshire. I would like to speak to you in opposition to this type of state sponsored violence. As many of you know, I grew up in a part of the world in which there is much violence by countries against their own people. Anyone who watches the news hears about the type of violence that occurs. My family fled violence from Afghanistan. The top four countries where death penalty execution occurs, often by hanging and firing squads, are Iran, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Pakistan. They accounted for 84% of the confirmed state execution in 2016 and 2017. The United States dropped to the eighth place on this terrible list of 2017 just below Somalia. The United States has absolutely no need for a capital punishment and New Hampshire should remove itself from a terrible list of states that use the death penalty. We have such an amazing state motto, Live Free or Die. Let's put the emphasis on living. Now is the time to end this terrible punishment in favor of life without parole. I count myself as a truly blessed person. I live in an amazing country founded on ideas of equal treatment under the law, however, national studies show that death penalty is often used against the poor and people of color. I'm greatly impressed with the words of attorney Brian Stevenson, Director of the Equal Justice Initiative. Brian Stevenson has said this, "When you have a system so compromised by error and so weighted against the poor and people of color, I don't think you deserve to kill people." Taking someone's life requires a kind of perfect judgement. If you take someone's life you don't have the ability to recover from that. Stevenson calls for human dignity. I agree that dignity is essential, and we must stop the death penalty and to take back that dignity. New Hampshire is better than this. The fact that no one has been executed in 80 years says that. New Hampshire can live without the death penalty and I urge you, my colleagues, to vote on this HB 455. Thank you and I will not take any questions.
Speaker ShurtleffThe Chair recognizes the member from Merrimack, Rep. Notter.
Rep. Jeanine Notter (R - Hills 21)Thank you, Mister Speaker. I rise in opposition to the committee report of Ought to Pass on HB 455. This does not mean that I think every killer should get the death penalty, only the worst of the worst. Since the year 1734, 24 people have been executed in New Hampshire and the last one was in 1939. This goes to show that the current law, which covers limited situations of murder is working. So, why change it? In 2011 I co-sponsored the Kim Cates Bill that made a slight expansion to the state's death penalty law to include home invasion murders. Every time we debate the death penalty I feel compelled to remind the House what happened to Kim Cates and I will also remind you of Officer Briggs. My husband works with Dave Cates whose wife Kim was brutally murdered in the wee hours of the morning, October 4, 2009. Their daughter Jaimie was 11 years old at the time and she was also attacked and left for dead. That she survived is nothing short of a miracle. Dave was away on travel the week of the murder. The thugs that broke into the home went into the basement, cut the power and made their way down the hall by the light of a cellphone. The master bedroom was at the far end of the house. Kim was about my height, but she weighed 30 pounds less than I do right now and I'm not a very big person. She pleaded with the killers saying, "You don't have to do this," but they hacked away, and she kicked and held up her arms in a defensive manner, fighting against the inevitable. The autopsy showed that she was alive for most of the attack, feeling every slash and blow. After reading the transcripts and following the trials, I believe that life in prison is not justice for a heinous crime such as this. Jaimie was sleeping in her mom's room that night and awoke to the horrific sounds of the attack. She jumped off the bed but was caught by one of the killers who stabbed her, slashed her face and cut off part of her foot. She was thrown across the room where she lay still and pretended to be dead. The air coming out through the opening of Kim's chest made an eerie sound. One of the killers finished her off
while the other walked over to where Jaimie lay crumpled on the floor. This brave 11-year-old child didn't make a sound as she was kicked and stabbed one more time. The lights were turned back on and the friends laughed at the sight of Kim's eye hanging from the socket and at her exposed private parts. To get to the phone which was in the kitchen, Jaimie grievously wounded, had a long way to crawl through the master bedroom, past her mother drenched in blood and gore, past the den, the bathroom, her room and then the living room. Somehow, she made it and called 911. She barely got the words out, "They killed my mommy" before she passed out. A heroic police officer injured his shoulder breaking down the door to get to Jaimie and he saved her life. Five months after the incident, which Dave began calling it, we were invited over to remember Kim. I remember hearing Jaimie say in her young voice, "Today is mommy's birthday" and that was nine years ago today, March 7, 2010. People all over the country were shocked by the murder. Nancy Grace was just one of the TV hosts that followed this story on her show. Even today college students read about it in case study, including my daughter-in-law on the West Coast. The shock affected people who were not even related to the case. I remember standing with Kim and my friend Nancy Morin at Canobie Lake Park while our kids squirted water at every one who crossed their path. Now, Nancy's daughter Elizabeth is the same age as Jaimie and Elizabeth was vicariously traumatized by the incident and slept in her parents' room for a whole year until the doctor prescribed her medication. Nancy Morin who is also my constituent came to the New Hampshire State House to testify for the first time in her life in 2011 to help pass the Kim Cates law. Dave himself came up here to testify. He sat right there in section three and did his best to avoid media attention. He testified so no other family would have to suffer injustice like his family. We should not rip this law from the books. Before I close I want to point out that some of our colleagues wear a round pin with the number 83 in the center. Manchester Officer Michael Briggs' badge number was 83. He was shot to death in the line of duty in 2006 leaving his wife a widow and his two young children fatherless. His family has been in the gallery watching the proceedings when a repeal of the death penalty has been debated in previous terms. I haven't forgotten Officer Briggs and I hope you won't either. Today I learned that he was a marine. When a criminal is serving a lifetime in prison, if they kill somebody in jail, there is nothing they can add to the sentence. It's like giving them a license to kill. When a murderer is in prison for killing a cop, they're considered a jailhouse hero. I advocate for innocent lives, but if you believe in justice for victims of heinous crimes, please vote no on HB 455. Thank you.
Speaker ShurtleffWill the member yield to a question? The member does not yield. The Chair recognizes the member from Kingston, Rep. Welch.
Rep. David Welch (R - Rock 13)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, over the past 16 terms I have supported the death penalty and I supported it for the reasons you just heard. All that time I was up here I was voting pro-life and pro-death. I've changed my position and I want to explain why. Two years, two months and seven days ago, excuse me, I lost my wife and the grief of the experience since then has been horrible and it has not diminished. In June of last year, I got baptized and then I co-sponsored this bill to repeal the death penalty. I don't expect to change anybody's mind today, but I felt as if I owed an explanation as to why I have changed. An inmate on death row has loved ones that care for him in spite of what he has done. The victims' family goes through grief similar to what I went through. When that inmate is put to death, there is another family going through the grief and they are innocent. Both families are innocent, and they are both going through the same thing. I just don't think it's a good policy for our government to execute people. A much worse penalty is living there the rest of their lives. Thank you.
Speaker ShurtleffWill my friend from Kingston yield to a question? Rep. Horn you may inquire.
Rep. Werner Horn (R - Merr 3)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Thank you to the Representative for taking my question. You always have my prayers as you continue to cope. My question is about coping. When somebody has had a family member murdered, and they are in jail, the parole process requires notification to the victim's families that a parole hearing is coming up. Are you aware of the affect and what is the effect on a family that has to see that notification over and over again?
Rep. David Welch (R - Rock 13)Obviously I can't know the answer, but my suspicion is that family starts the grief process all over again and it's hard for the victims to face that.
Speaker ShurtleffWill the member yield to another question? The member may inquire.
Rep. Frank Kotowski (R - Merr 24)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Thank you, my friend, from Kingston. I have a question that is difficult for even me to answer because I went through the same thing that you did recently. You mentioned that you had been baptized not too long ago and I recall my faith and what I was taught over time. You believe that the commandment that says, "Thou shalt not kill" is appropriate for this legislature to override?
Rep. David Welch (R - Rock 13)Obviously I do believe in the ten commandments, all of them, and I hope to live up to them, so I agree with you.
Speaker ShurtleffThe Chair recognizes the member from Stratford, Rep. Wuelper to speak against the recommendation.
Rep. Kurt Wuelper (R - Straf 4)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker I rise in support in opposition to the committee report and in support of the death penalty. I do that on the reasons that have been enunciated before. Two reasons, one is justice. Justice. I don't believe you can have justice. You can have equal treatment under the law. Unless we are willing to stand and say there are some crimes so heinous that they deserve the maximum punishment. I believe that the actions of those criminals who are offered the alternative between the death penalty and life in prison speak eloquently to the fact that the death penalty is in fact the maximum punishment and therefore we are almost required to have it in order to have a punishment that fits certain crimes. One of which you heard about this morning. So, I support the death penalty on the basis of justice. I serve the same God you heard referenced here just a moment ago. I believe in the same commandment. I believe that our God has been explicit in how we should proceed in this case. I believe that is an old testament commandment and it's a new testament commandment as well. I can quote you chapter and verse, oh maybe I will. So, in the ten commandments where it says, "Thou shalt not kill," he is talking to individuals he is not talking to society. In the new testament, he says, "The state does not bear his sword in vain but to be an avenger for the Lord and to do justice," and if one should do good, one should not fear such things, but if one does evil that's why this government bears the sword. I urge you to vote in support of the death penalty.
Speaker ShurtleffWill the member yield to a question? Rep. Gagne, you are recognized.
Rep. Larry Gagne (R - Hills 13)Thank you, Mister Speaker. Thank you for taking my question. If this bill were to pass to repeal the death penalty, would it also repeal the death penalty on the unborn child?
Rep. Kurt Wuelper (R - Straf 4)No, unfortunately the unborn child is not protected by law the way the rest of our human race is, and it should be, but it's not.
Speaker ShurtleffThe Chair recognizes the last speaker, Rep. Cushing, the member from Hampton to speak for the recommendation.
Rep. Robert Renny Cushing (D - Rock 21)Thank you, Mister Speaker and members of the House. It's been 185 years since Governor William Badger first asked the legislature to abolish the death penalty in the State of New Hampshire and I know that for many of us over the past few decades, every biennium, this topic comes up. I am also aware of the fact that a third of the people sitting in this chamber, it's the first time that they will vote on capital punishment. I want to echo the statements of previous speakers in recognizes how enormously complicated this simple bill is and acknowledge that there are people who come to their position on this particular bill after some deep soul searching. At the end of the day I respect everyone for their position on this and I also know that the reason we are having a discussion about the death penalty in New Hampshire in 2019 is because people are murdered. Unlike the member from Concord who grew up under the rule of the Taliban where people were put to death for apostasy and other rules, we only put people to death, we only have the death penalty because people are murdered. I want to speak about that. There are a lot of reasons why I think the death penalty is wrong. I know my friends who are strong libertarians don't trust the government to collect taxes or plow snow and they certainly don't want to give the government the power to kill an incapacitated prisoner. I feel in my heart those who embrace consistent life ethic, a seamless garment ethic. I know people who, having listened to the testimony of survivors of death row who came to this chamber and talked about what happened to them, realize that this is a system that is operated by flawed human beings that requires perfection. We don't have that to do. I've listened to the discussions of members of law enforcement who tell us that it really doesn't work for law enforcement. At the end of the day I take the position in opposition because I don't think that the death penalty works for victims of crimes, for survivors of victims of crime. I am one of a number of people in this chamber who know what it is like to have a loved one taken by homicide. A few decades ago, my parents planted a garden in the backyard of their family home. The same thing they had done for 35 seasons before and that evening when the Boston Celtics game was on there was a knock at the door and my dad answered it and he was greeted by two shotgun blasts that turned his chest into hamburger and killed him in front of my mother's eyes. Eight years ago, in a hauntingly similar crime my brother-in-law was murdered by seven shots fired from a FN-Five Seven military assault pistol. So, when I think about what you do in the aftermath of murder, it's not an intellectual exercise, it's part of who I am. Nothing prepares you to have a family member murdered and quite frankly, the first thing you don't think about is what to do with the killer. You try to figure out what to do with the empty chair at the kitchen table. What to do with the emptiness in your heart and you go through a whole process that lasts forever of trying to regain control over your life. I had something happen to me a few days after my father's killers were arrested. It was a long period of time before my father's killers were identified and apprehended and that was part of the dead zone and my heart always goes out to those families of unsolved homicides. In My case, my family's case, we were fortunate to find out who the killers were. After they were arrested, an old family friend of mine came up to me in the corner grocery store and said, "Hey Renny, I really hope that they fry the person so that you and your family can get some peace." I didn't know how to respond at the time because this is a guy who knew me his, my whole life and I knew he was trying to give me some comfort for this saying there should be an execution, but I couldn't respond because my whole life I had opposed the death penalty and he knew it. I had to think about that and I realized that I live in a society where there is this wildly held belief that all family members of murder victims want the death penalty, that they need it in order to find closure or some kind of healing. He was assuming that because my dad had been murdered that I had changed my position on the death penalty. I thought about that and I realized that if what he expected became true, if I changed
my position on the death penalty because my father was murdered, that would only give more power to the killers because not only would my father be taken from me, but so too would the values that he gave me. I think it's that way for society as it is for individuals. If we let those who kill turn us into killers, then evil triumphs and we all lose. I know sometimes that when I speak in opposition to the death penalty people think that I must be some kind of psycho or some kind of saint. That happens oftentimes when people will say that I didn't really love your father or your brother. People say that you didn't love your loved one otherwise you would want the person put to death, but I don't do that. The notion that what I should want and what all murder victim's families told that what they should want in order to be good victims, is to have the killer of their loved one taken from a jail cell, strapped onto a gurney, have a needle put in their arm and pumped full of poison until the killer dies, until you fill another empty coffin. That does nothing to bring back our loved one. All it does is it widens the circle of violence. I know that for many people the most, I do know one thing about murder victim's family members. When you talk about the heinous murders, you talk about the worse murders. Well, the worst murder is the murder of your own loved one and that's true. What I don't like about the death penalty is that it ends up creating a hierarchy of victims, you know, like some victims are maybe worth more so you want to put the person to death. How that translates is we live in a state where there are, we spend $5 million on one homicide case and at the same time there are 128 unsolved murders in the State of New Hampshire and later this year we are going to take up legislation that hopefully will fund the cold case homicide unit. Because if you are one of the 128 family members whose murder has not been solved and you see the state spending a lot of resources on one particular case and nothing on yours, you have to ask why. The reason is that we make values in judgement. I know that this is a very difficult vote and I just simply would say that New Hampshire can live without the death penalty. You can be both pro-victim and anti-death penalty at the same time and I would urge you to support passage of HB 455. Thank you.
Speaker ShurtleffThe question before the House is the recommendation of Ought to Pass on HB 455. This will be a division vote. Members will kindly take their seats. A roll call has been requested. Is that sufficiently seconded? It is sufficiently seconded. This will be a roll call vote. The question before the House is the recommendation of Ought to Pass on HB 455. The Chair recognizes Rep. Baldasaro for a parliamentary inquiry.
Rep. Al Baldasaro (R - Rock 5)Thank you, Mister Speaker. I don't know if you noticed, I wore my marine tie for Officer Briggs today.
Rep. Al Baldasaro (R - Rock 5)Oorah. Thank you, Mister Speaker. Mister Speaker, if I know that there is a lot of emotions in this bill and that we as legislators have to keep our emotions outside the door and do what is right for the State of New Hampshire. And, Mister Speaker, if I believe that Officer Briggs and home invasions killers should be put to death and they deserve everything that did to the family or that officer. And, Mister Speaker if I know that every officer that goes to work during the day deserves to go home at night and that by having the death penalty on the books, has been a deterrent in my opinion throughout the years to ensure that there would not be any attack here in New Hampshire like many other states on our police, would I then push the red button so another motion can be made? Thank you.
Speaker ShurtleffThe question before the House the recommendation that the bill Ought to Pass. The Chair recognizes Rep. Rodd for a parliamentary inquiry.
Rep. Beth Rodd (D - Merr 6)Thank you, Mister Speaker and colleagues. If I know that in the past fifty years, one out of ten people have been exonerated because of poor representation, false science and prosecutorial misuse. And, if I know that 40 years of studies on the death penalty shows that it has no deterrent effect on future murders. And, if I know that the death penalty appeals process causes years of additional harm to the families of murder victims while executions fail to offer healing or closure and that the death penalty precludes the possibility of rehabilitation and redemption and that life in prison without parole is a harsh and just sentence and it safeguards society against people who are harmful, would I now then fight against vengeance because vengeance begets vengeance and push the green button to repeal the death penalty in New Hampshire? Thank you.
Speaker ShurtleffThis is a roll call vote. The question before the House is the recommendation that the bill Ought to Pass. If you are in favor, you'll press the green button. If you are opposed, you'll press the red button. Voting stations will be open for 30 seconds. Have all members present had an opportunity to vote? The House will be attentive to the state of the vote. With 279 members voting Yea and 88 voting Nay, the recommendation is adopted.